couchtiger ([info]couchtiger) wrote,
@ 2007-11-08 08:27:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend  Next Entry
Mark Steyn Lecture in Newton
I had the very good fortune to be able to attend a lecture last night by Mark Steyn, a very engaging and well known commentator. Being somewhat politically excitable myself, I love to hear important people speak on hot button issues, and in addition to being a wildly attractive man, Mark Steyn is a great speaker. Win-win!

In speaking on the "Islamification of the World" he made some very interesting points - things I did very much agree with. He is a libertarian from New Hampshire, by the way.


- With the persistant clamoring for national health care comes a complete lack of awareness for what exactly that will cost. Not cost in money, but cost in something less tangible. He argues that in the Western world, there is really one clear superpower - America. And that with the alliances that the western countries have, America is there to defend everyone. Subsequently, these other countries have been free to spend less money and energy on defense (knowing that they have alliances with the superpower USA) and channel their money into government healthcare. In essence, American taxpayers are what have enabled other countries to have the "wildly successful" national health care that they do - but if we go that way, who is left to enable us?

-The future. I feel heavily invested in this topic and I know lots of my friends run the othe way when I start to talk about childbearing and "family values", but Steyn made a great point last night - The future belongs to those of us that show up for it. Birth rates in several european countries are low, even below replacement rates - while it is estimated that within ten years one out of every 3 births on the planet will be muslim. They are the fastest growing group of people on the globe - multiplying well above replacement rates and keeping close knit family structures that propel the society along. Western countries have heavily denounced this notion, there are birth crises in several european countries, Italy and Germany among them. Anyone who wants any say in the future of the planet damm well better be helping produce the next generations. It's so simple and so true - the future will belong to those who are there for it. And obviously the future will not be belonging to Italians.

-Hard nations and soft nations. In his book America Alone Steyn examines the nations of the western world and divides them into categories - America is hard, and everyone else is soft. America has hard rules and is a place of working people, rather than those "sucking the government teat" for eons and eons. Many people now say that we should go like france - with it's cushy maternity leave and taxpayer childcare and healthcare and fancy unemployment and extended vacation times. What a simple solution - just be like France. But in ten years france will have its workers operating at a rate of 1:.56 - meaning that for every 1 individual working, .56% of his earnings will go to directly support someone else. Yee haw, that sounds great! America is operating at a rate of 1:.11 or something similar at the moment. By 2040 it is estimated that the rate will be 1:.25, and that is without the addition of government healthcare. The simple solution has a very simple unresolvable problem - that in countries where this has been implemented, there is a steady decline of working folk such that eventually there will not be enough workers to support the endless benefits that everyone receives. With social security alone America will be facing this problem, imagine the crisis if you tack on additional social benefits for everyone. Ye gods.

So when turning back to the hard and soft nations, France is a soft nation. Canada is a soft nation. Greece is a soft nation. When SARS came from China to Toronto, the first thing Canadians did was ship it on down to the CDC, knowing that some guy in America would stay overtime and work round the clock to figure this disease out. When stuff comes into America, no one is calling Canada for help - they are far to busy waiting in endless lines for their excellent free healthcare. Americas success has come from it's status as a hard nation, which is rapidly diminishing, and will only be worsened by those that seek to make it soft. Instead of having a nation that pays for men to become women, I'd rather have a nation that is built by men being men. I am so sexist/genderist/whatever.

-Islamification. So as we all go soft and take cushy vacations and use bazillions of tons of imported oil, the Islamists are doing what they do best - quietly multiplying. Some group that is on the FBI watch list is funding a huge mosque being built here in Boston - because in the name of ethnic diversity we can't tell them no. So in order not to hurt anyones feelings we allow groups on terrorist watch to fund large projects in our cities, something doesn't sound great about that. The Islamist groups have a strong identity and they channel people through determined and productive paths - while the rest of the western world flounders and spends time "finding themselves" and half of us barely start productive work by the time we're 30. This prolonged period of adolescence allows the Islamists to grow up twice as fast as we do and be doubly invested in the global future. By the time we produce one semi-productive, semi-confident 30 year old man, the Islamists have twice over produced a 15 year old boy ready to either die for his country or to marry and produce children. No wonder we can't catch up.

And in case anyone doubted my presence - here's a smashing photo of Mark Steyn himself with the HUB Republican Women.



(34 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]loveneverfails
2007-11-08 02:25 pm UTC (link)
hey, i'm doing my part...

:-P

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]couchtiger
2007-11-08 02:31 pm UTC (link)
You surely are!!! Snaps to you, my friend. May I be as fertile and as excellent a mother as you.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]loveneverfails
2007-11-08 02:38 pm UTC (link)
See, I'd make a politically incorrect youtube about it, but I don't want to be anyone's way to his 72 virgins and X beardless boys... :-P

Also, I recommend living in an area where you can afford a lot of kids. Our 3 bedroom house was 80k, and this is a decent neighborhood. Then you could start sooner rather than later. :-) Airfare up to Boston a few times a year is cheaper than living in Boston year round. Might I suggest... Dallas? Hehehe!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]couchtiger
2007-11-08 02:41 pm UTC (link)
Boy, I would love to live in Dallas. We have family in Richardson and go down rather often. Cost of living is definitely cheaper down there.

The condo across the street from us just sold - a 2 bedroom, 1 bath condo, 1 parking space, no yard, not on a train line or anything. It sold for the bargain price of $399k.

Our pay is porportionate to the area though - I don't know if M would make what he makes in Dallas. I would love to have kids anytime, for real - sooner OR later! I was sort of hoping for this month....but no.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]loveneverfails
2007-11-08 02:57 pm UTC (link)
Even if he made less (Dallas pays pretty danged well, as far as I've seen) the cost of living would make up for it at least. And no hostility to religion down here, great airfare anywhere in the US, upholding moral norms... I <3 Texas.

And you've got to Richardson and haven't come by to behold the sublime beauty of my baby girly?!!?!?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]couchtiger
2007-11-08 03:01 pm UTC (link)
I don't think you had a baby girly last time we were in Richardson! But next time we're there I would love to behold the beautiful Sasha.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]queenpeladon
2007-11-08 03:33 pm UTC (link)
In essence, American taxpayers are what have enabled other countries to have the "wildly successful" national health care that they do - but if we go that way, who is left to enable us?

Our National Health Service was established immediately after WWII, when we were financially crippled. Although we were undoubtedly in debt to America for their support during that war, I take exception to the implication that it's because they're spending money on our behalf on defence that we can somehow afford the luxury of free health care. We struggled to provide our people with access free health care even when it was incredibly difficult to do so, because we believed it was integral to the success of a developed nation, and our people's basic right. If we could do it in 1946 when most of our country was rubble, you can do it now - America certainly isn't dragging its heels because it can't afford free health care, or because it's busy propping up every other so-called "soft nation." I find this all rather soul-destroying reading, to be honest.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]couchtiger
2007-11-08 03:38 pm UTC (link)
Well it is just one man's opinion, to be sure. There is probably an equally persuasive man on the other side of the argument, he just wasn't in Newton last night so I didn't hear him.

But on the larger scale, do you think GB would continually put so much money and effort into healthcare expenditures if it also had a serious defense burden to worry about? There are only so many honey pots for money to go in.....

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]queenpeladon
2007-11-08 03:58 pm UTC (link)
Perhaps if America is concerned about the amount of money it's putting into defence it should be more cautious about making enemies. I'm not an expert on defence budgets, but I'm not entirely sure that "the UK doesn't have a serious defence burden" is entirely fair - sadly a lot of Americans seem to forget the fact that we're your allies in this "war on terror," have been subject to terrorist attacks on our soil just as you have, and frankly, I'm not sure where the difference lies. Sure, you've got more land to defend, but personally I think that's just one example of how the concept of "the United States" just doesn't work - 50 individual nations would be much more sensible all-round, and strip the US of a lot of that power it's so bewitched by. Only when a nation loses its power does it start to think about mending its ways and looking after its people properly - I think that goes a long way to explaining why the US doesn't give a toss about free healthcare. It would rather spend its money on military might, great shows of power and influence, etc, and by encouraging its people to be contemptuous and hard-hearted towards those who are less fortunate than themselves, and spouting all these pathetic reasons why free healthcare isn't viable, it has a significant enough number of people supporting the regime to keep going. Very sad.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]couchtiger
2007-11-08 04:02 pm UTC (link)
But no healthcare is really "free," not even yours. It's just a question of coming at what cost. I think his point was that with the amount of Islamists in the world and the number ever growing, a small country like GB doesn't really have a prayer at defending itself on it's own - much less defending other nations. So the onus falls on larger countries like America (although then how does Canada get off easy, I don't know) who are able to allocate the money and man power to defend themselves and their western neighbors.

On a related note, do you find your healthcare to be good? Most of the people I know on national healthcare (M has stepsibilings and their families in Canada) complain bitterly about it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]queenpeladon
2007-11-08 04:22 pm UTC (link)
My healthcare is excellent, given that it's free. I've never had cause for complaint. I've been treated quickly, efficiently and professionally. People do complain about the NHS, of course, mostly about the time it takes to get an operation, but no system is perfect, and I'd rather it existed with flaws than didn't exist at all.

I won't get started on this whole "oh noes, Islam is taking over the world" attitude which is supposed to whip us into hysteria. Suffice to say, I don't perceive the Islamic faith or culture, on the whole, to be a threat, and nor does the UK on the whole - consequently, we're not overly concerned about defending ourselves from it, nor do we want America on standby to swoop in and save our poor soft people. Yes, there is a select group of people of the Islamic faith who will try their damndest to spread their beliefs throughout the world at any price, but I don't care for the way these scaremongers give the impression that it is Islam as a whole that's trying to infect the Western world like a plague. I really, really do not like the sound of this man or his beliefs. I'm just glad I didn't have to endure that lecture.

LOL, you must think I'm the epitome of a soft European moron. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]couchtiger
2007-11-08 04:24 pm UTC (link)
Nah, you're just the opposite of me and that is ok.

I didn't just "endure" the lecture - I PAID to go see it! You must think I'm the epitome of an intolerant American bigot. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]queenpeladon
2007-11-08 04:53 pm UTC (link)
Not at all - you're prepared to discuss your views with me in a polite and respectful fashion for a start! I do find some of your opinions a little unpalatable on occasion, but there's a rational basis for all of them and it does me good to read them, and usually, once we've talked a bit, I find that we agree on so much more than it first appeared.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]couchtiger
2007-11-08 03:41 pm UTC (link)
As an aside - why DO you think America is dragging it's heels on the healthcare? No one seems to have an answer that isn't riddled with corruption.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]babyfevertime
2007-11-08 03:36 pm UTC (link)
I would have to say I agree with all those points. And of course I think religion's a huge part of it as well--or, in the case of Europe, the lack thereof.

I don't know why people keep thinking that socialism might work *this* time around...it just brings the economy down, creating more poor and oppressed.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]couchtiger
2007-11-08 03:40 pm UTC (link)
I wish you could have made the speech, you probably really would have like to hear him. I'm now feeling like I want to go out and buy his book (which probably just what he wanted to accomplish, haha).

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]babyfevertime
2007-11-08 03:46 pm UTC (link)
I have the first book (America Alone).

Yeah I thought I had an Evangelism Committee meeting so I showed up at the parsonage right at 7pm only to find the associate pastor and her husband finishing dinner...apparently the meeting is tonight instead.

Poop. I totally would have liked to hear him too.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]couchtiger
2007-11-08 03:47 pm UTC (link)
Oh. Can I borrow it? There is a wait list at the library, poop.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]babyfevertime
2007-11-08 03:57 pm UTC (link)
I packed it up in storage but it's at our library (a 7-minute drive) so I'll go pick it up for you. And I'll give it to you tomorrow! Any other books you want me to see if they have? There is almost never a waiting list at our little library. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]queenpeladon
2007-11-08 04:00 pm UTC (link)
Just wanted to correct you on something - many parts of Europe are as religious, if not more so, than America as a whole. If you visited Spain I'm sure you'd be struck by how important the Catholic faith still is to the majority of Spaniards. Sure, many parts of Europe are light on religion, shall we say, but it's rather a large continent to make such a sweeping statement about. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]babyfevertime
2007-11-08 04:01 pm UTC (link)
I used to live in Spain.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]queenpeladon
2007-11-08 04:10 pm UTC (link)
Colour me confused! Did you feel that Spain was not particularly religious then?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]babyfevertime
2007-11-08 04:23 pm UTC (link)
(sorry, I shouldn't have been short in my previous comment!)

Hmmm...well, I think that they tend to revere the Pope, and in many ways they fall in line with generally *any* powers that be. I noticed that everywhere I went--the country spent so much time being dominated by, frankly, terror-type rule, that people keep their mouths shut and go with what they're told, both politically and religiously.

I think Europe has most definitely been historically Christian, but the Enlightenment period led to much disillusionment with institutionalized religion. In fact, when the European Union wrote up a historical credo, they had to strike most acknowledgments of Christian history from the record as they were deemed offensive.

I'm not saying that *no one* in Europe is religious--that would be blatantly wrong--but the numbers of practicing Christians, Jews, etc are declining significantly every year and have been for decades. However, the numbers of practicing Muslim immigrants or 1st-generation European Muslims are increasing exponentially, and will soon overtake all other forms of religion.

When I spent time in Germany, I noticed that while many people visited the absolutely incredible cathedral in Erfurt, only a handful of people attended services, especially of the under-80 crowd.

All my books with stats are packed up right now, otherwise I'd give you more concrete facts...sorry!!

Oh, and your icon is British? :) I don't think Britain is quite in the same line as continental Europe, especially as regards religious involvement.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]babyfevertime
2007-11-08 04:25 pm UTC (link)
Oops, I forgot to mention that the numbers of people who identify as non-religious, agnostic, or atheistic are increasing steadily every year as Christian/Jew/etc membership declines...that's a pretty important development in the self-identity of countries whose past worldviews had been so dominated by the Church.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]queenpeladon
2007-11-08 04:47 pm UTC (link)
I think you're probably spot-on with everything you've said. Religion, on the whole, is on the way out in most parts of Europe for precisely the reasons you mentioned; we've been through so much with it thoughout history that, to be blunt, it's almost run its course.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Cell phone video of this event
(Anonymous)
2007-11-08 08:11 pm UTC (link)
I was there as well and I managed to capture the first 15 min or so on this crappy cell phone video: http://volvoxx.com/videotron/jw_media_player/ Enjoy!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Cell phone video of this event
[info]couchtiger
2007-11-08 08:43 pm UTC (link)
Well, thank you, anonymous friend. How did you come across this post?

Also, there is an interesting write up on this blog: http://bloodthirstyliberal.com/?p=4263

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Cell phone video of this event
(Anonymous)
2007-11-09 02:23 am UTC (link)
you are linked on SteynOnline!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Cell phone video of this event
[info]couchtiger
2007-11-09 03:13 am UTC (link)
Well, that's pretty cool! I hope I represented at least somewhat accurately what he said...

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]archer823
2007-11-08 08:39 pm UTC (link)
I can't say I agree with most of the analysis but that is because I do stand in the polor opposite politically. I do think he is making very complex situations and trying to break them out in a simple way, but in the process maybe forgetting about the nuances and grey areas. America has built itself to becoming a superpower, but world events in the last century has helped to put America where it is today, those who are crying that the sky is falling because China, India, the EU, and the Islamification of the next generation might someday be more powerful than us are missing a key point, would that really be such a bad thing? Putting aside pride and patriotism, would it be such a terrible thing for our day to day lives if the country we know and love today isn't a superpower? I don't know the answer, but I don't think the answer automatically is no and for someone to just say "No of course that's the worst possible thing to happen" isn't thinking it through.

Europe and it's socialist societies have their issues, serious ones at that. We've got a different set of issues and a completely different cultural outlook. I do like his analogy of "hard versus soft" but I don't think that it hurt this country and our culture to be a little more softer and have a bit more emphathy for those who cannot do for themselves.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]couchtiger
2007-11-08 08:46 pm UTC (link)
I don't hear anyone crying about the sky falling and the chinese taking over, nor the Indians....really just the Islamists - because of their unification as a group in combination with a few dangerous and radical teachings. Just a few people believe in that woudn't be something to worry about - but increasing numbers of faithful but radical followers all over the globe would.

I do agree though, that an fall from ultimate power would not necessarily be the end of the world.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]archer823
2007-11-08 09:28 pm UTC (link)
I've heard other conservative commentators go on and on about how our supremecy is about to end because of China or India or the strong Euro but now the focus dujour seems to be on Islam.

I'd like to agree with this point of view because I do see a problem with radical fundementalism in our world; it just doesn't fit our puralistic sociey where although many people might not agree with one other, they can still get along and there are laws to protect those who have a minority point of view. But it doesn't just exist in Islam, it's where our focus is today, but radical fundementalism could be seen in Christianity through Fred Phelp's and his abhorrent Westboro "Baptist" "Church" (I use these words very loosely, they are neither Baptist nor Church). I think every organized religion has fringe offshoots that pervert it's true meaning of peace and prosperity into something evil. I think to group the vast majority of people who are Muslim into the same group as Al Qaeda would be a disservice to those who are peaceful law abiding citizens of the world. I also think that we're starting to see in the next few generations where puralism will start to seep into the young minds of those who practice Islam today, that they'll start to see that an "Us versus Them" view of the world won't do anything to fix the issues that need to be faced. But those who are calling for crushing Islam as a whole I think are mistaken in their view of how to approach the fringe radicals. It's like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I've heard too many people argue that you cannot seperate Islam into moderates and radicals, that all are the same and I fear that our society will take that viewpoint. And I just disagree with that from what I've seen myself.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

French Leader Catching On Recently?
(Anonymous)
2007-11-08 11:14 pm UTC (link)
I don't know if he reads Mark Steyn or not, but Sarkozy, the new leader of France, was on the American TV show 60 MINUTES last month, and in his country he is getting flack because he is trying to start promote an American work ethic, and a reduction of government welfare, citing many of the same concepts that Steyn writes about, such as how the current system is headed for financial collapse, and the French need to reduce government handouts and increase French worker production, like increasing their standard work weeks from 35 to 40 hours per week.

A tough sell, but whether they credit Steyn or not, there are positive signs that at least SOME influential Europeans are starting to think alike with Steyn, as great minds must need do. (c:

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: French Leader Catching On Recently?
[info]couchtiger
2007-11-08 11:20 pm UTC (link)
Yes, I notice that a lot of people extol the virtues of French living, but yet not many are headed over there to work.....seems that a lot of us could stand to be a little less "soft!"

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(34 comments) - (Post a new comment)

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…